Interview with James Andrews

"I am still reeling from this trip," said James Andrews, North Carolina AFL-CIO president. Andrews visited South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Swaziland as one of six U.S. labor leaders on a Solidarity Center exchange program. The Solidarity Center interviewed him about his experience — and how it has changed the way he sees the world.

"Just because people speak a different language and live halfway around the world it doesn't mean that we are not brothers and sisters," said North Carolina AFL-CIO President James Andrews on his return from Southern Africa. "We are all trying to make a living."

Solidarity Center: I understand this was your first trip to Africa. How did you prepare for it?

James Andrews: Well, technically, it was my second trip to the African continent. I had conducted union workshops in Liberia 25 years ago. But it was my first trip to Southern Africa. And to tell you the truth, I didn't have much time to prepare. I pulled out a map to see where South Africa was located in relation to Zimbabwe and Swaziland. I knew about current events in South Africa from reading U.S. newspapers, but I didn't know about any specific labor concerns, and I knew nothing at all about Swaziland. Of course, I was aware of some issues, like HIV/AIDS, but the extent of the problem didn't hit us until we arrived.

SC: What was your best experience? Your worst?

JA: Let me start with my worst experience. That was waking up one morning in Zimbabwe to read in the paper that we were not a union delegation, that we had no union experience, and that we were actually spies who were in the country under false pretenses. The article said that "relevant authorities should urgently investigate the nature and purpose of the suspicious visit." I was upset, to say the least. I tried to imagine how I would feel if I got a knock on my door at 2:00 a.m. and some stranger said, "You need to come with me." Fortunately, it didn't reach that point, but it was still very unsettling.

My best experience was witnessing the level of courage and dedication of labor leaders in the three countries we visited. It takes something special to stand up for workers under the repressive conditions our brothers and sisters are facing. One of the heroes I met was Lucia Matibenga, general secretary of the Zimbabwe commercial workers union and vice-president of the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions. She has been arrested many times, detained, and beaten. While we were there, government-run unions tried to oust her illegally, and she was barred from her own office. She had to challenge the court order, but she won. When we heard that news, we felt like dancing.

SC: You toured a garment factory and spoke with leaders of teacher, commercial worker, service worker, textile worker, engineer, and even mineworker unions. What did you gain from such varied and extensive exchanges?

"I talked to workers at a garment factory in Swaziland," said Andrews. "I was amazed to find that their struggle was the mirror image of our own here in the South."

JA: I realized that workers in all of these unions share common concerns with workers in our own country. I talked to workers at a garment factory in Swaziland, and I was amazed to find that their struggle was the mirror image of our own here in the South — they were fighting to keep their jobs as companies did the skip-hop to China or India, they were fighting employers' illegal tactic of hiring "day workers" for years on end with no retirement or health care benefits. Teachers in South Africa told me that a college degree doesn't guarantee a job, and that sounded familiar too. And in all three countries, the unions recognized that they must grow in order to have a strong labor movement.

SC: Do you feel that African union members have something to teach us?

JA: Absolutely. First, their courage and commitment are an inspiration to us all. They taught me that no matter what the risk, if you stay true to your mission, you can make it happen. Second, they taught me that we are all connected in one global chain. And because of this connection, we must look beyond our own borders. Only by building democratic and free trade unions everywhere that can stand up to multinational companies will we be able to secure our own future here in the United States.

SC: Is there any one thing in particular that you would tell American union members?

JA: Yes. Never take our freedoms for granted. We in the labor movement count on our right to freedom of assembly and freedom of association. In Zimbabwe, if more than three people want to gather, the law requires them to obtain advance clearance from the government. If they do not get permission, make no mistake, they are arrested and jailed. As Americans, we must not only cherish our freedoms, but also ensure that they are granted to all.

SC: Many exchange program participants say that their experience changed their lives. Do you feel that way? Did you take away something that you would like to carry forward?

JA: I am still reeling from this trip. It has made a profound difference in how I see the world. I intend to be much more conscious of international labor issues, but beyond that, I want to find ways to engage rank and file members in the struggle for global economic justice. I want to help them see that just because people speak a different language and live halfway around the world it doesn't mean that we are not brothers and sisters. We are all trying to make a living.

Interview conducted by Joan Seidman Welsh, Solidarity Center Communications Program Officer

Learn more about the Solidarity Center's union exchange programs